Friday, 31 January 2014

The criminalisation of Gypsies and Travellers - book review

From the Institute Of Race Relations

There is much to commend in No Place to Call Home, a potted history of Gypsies, Roma and Travellers in the UK and Ireland, but its reliance on police sources is worrying.

There is much to praise in Katharine Quarmby’s No Place to Call Home. She capably describes the structured state and institutional racism that Gypsies and Travellers encounter, and relates their history to the waves of government legislation that abandoned the needs of its poorest communities for those of the market. In the 1800s nomadism faced encroachment from Enclosure, which privatised much of the land traditionally used in Gypsy and Traveller economies. A heightened culture of suspicion grew around those who refused to give up their old way of life until, in 1960, the government introduced the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act, deciding once and for all to sweep Gypsies and Travellers off the roads and into houses. This rendered it illegal for them to use the majority of their traditional stopping places, making a virtual impossibility of Travelling. This was essentially forced assimilation.

read more

‘Family Lines, Family Trails’ - The Romani Cultural & Arts Company

From The Romani Cultural & Arts Company

The Romani Cultural & Arts Company has received £84,700 from Heritage Lottery Fund for an exciting new project, Family Lines, Family Trails, in South Wales. Thanks to this second grant from the HLF, Isaac Blake and The Romani Cultural & Arts Company are able to continue their excellent work charting the stories and heritage of some prominent Gypsy and Traveller family lines throughout South Wales and beyond.

read more

Plans for Traveller site on Leeds-Wakefield border rejected by Eric Pickles - Yorkshire

From the Yorkshire Evening Post

Residents on both sides of the Leeds-Wakefield border are celebrating the decision to turn down plans for a Traveller site on their doorstep.


Controversial plans submitted by Tom Spaven for a 10-pitch permanent site close to the M62 in Castle Gate, Stanley, have been rejected by Secretary of State for Communities Eric Pickles on the advice of a planning inspector.

Residents and politicians sent in more than 1,200 objections to Wakefield Council’s planning department after more than 200 residents gathered at a community meeting to oppose the idea back in March 2012.

Despite the public outcry from residents in Carlton, Lofthouse, Ouzlewell Green and Stanley, officers initially recommended the plans be approved before a committee rejected the proposals and the landowner lodged an appeal last year.

But Wednesday’s decision has been described as a “hollow victory” by a Leeds Traveller group, who claim there are still scores of homeless people forced to live on the roadside in the region.

Vikki Stansfield, secretary of Stanley Residents Group, said: “It is a huge relief after two years to finally know that our greenbelt land has been protected.”

Concerns were raised that the site could lead to an increased risk of crime – though the site’s owners moved to state a warden would be on site at all times – while voicing fears over the loss of greenbelt land and the dangers of having a Traveller site just yards from the motorway.

Coun Jack Dunn (Lab, Ardsley and Robin Hood) said: “It’s a victory for common sense and the two communities of Stanley and Lofthouse who have combined together to object to this.”

Coun Karen Bruce (Lab, Rothwell) added: “This proposed Traveller site would have been an unsuitable development encroaching on to the greenbelt.”

But Helen Jones, chief executive of Leeds Gypsy and Traveller Exchange, called the decision a “kick in the teeth” to people who have done everything asked of them by planners at considerable person cost. She said: “I personally know many of the people who would have lived at Castle Gate and I can assure local residents who may be inclined to celebrate this decision that they have won a hollow victory indeed.”

The landowner did not wish to comment on the decision.

Thursday, 30 January 2014

Stockton Gypsy and Traveller site consultation - Yorkshire

From the BBC

A list of potential sites for Gypsy and Traveller families to live in Stockton are to be put out for consultation.

Six plots of land have been identified, but residents say the spaces should be used for the community.

The government requires all local authorities to identify sites with sufficient space to meet the needs of the Gypsy and Traveller community.

The council stressed an area's inclusion on the shortlist did not mean it would definitely be developed.

Regeneration and transport cabinet member Mike Smith said: "If we do not identify potentially suitable sites then any location in the borough may be subject to an application."

The six potential sites

Land to the rear of Roddmere, Yarm Back Lane, Stockton
Land on Frederick Street, Stockton
Land between Bowesfield Crescent and the River Tees, Stockton
Land on Mill Lane, Billingham
Land on Eltham Crescent, Thornaby
Land between the River Tees and Thornaby Road, Thornaby

The process would identify suitable sites but they would not be run by the council.

Private developers would still have to submit planning applications as normal, "should there be a future demand for them".

"Any comments received during the consultation will form part of a further assessment of the sites before the final selection of preferred sites for allocation," Mr Smith added.

"The consultation may also result in new sites being put forward and these would be assessed using the same criteria used so far."

The consultation period will run from 3 February 3 to 17 March.

Travellers on the move after occupying Bishop's Stortford Football Club's car park - Hertfordshire

From the Herts and Essex Observer

A STAND-off ended this evening (Thursday) as Travellers who had set up camp in the car park of Bishop's Stortford Football Club left.


Vehicles towing three caravans arrived at the club's ProKit UK stadium on the Woodside industrial estate off Dunmow Road yesterday (Wednesday) afternoon.

When two of the Travellers' vehicles left the site, the gates to the car park were locked.

When the Travellers returned and were denied access, they blocked the entrance with their vehicles and refused to move.

Initially, the Travellers said that they would be gone by midday today (Thursday).

The car park is private land leased by the Skrill South football club from club chairman Luigi del Basso.

A spokeswoman for Hertfordshire police said that they were alerted at 7.40pm yesterday to "five or six" caravans in the car park.

"The club is exploring legal remedies for them to be removed," she said.

"We are monitoring the situation. The area has been included in our regular patrols but unless criminality takes place we won't take action."

The Mitre Suite at the club is playing host this evening to the reconvened meeting of East Herts District Council's development management committee, which is delivering its verdict on the Bishop's Stortford North Consortium of developers' plans for 2,200 homes on land known as ASRs (Areas of Special Restraint) 1 to 4 inside the A120 bypass.

Gypsyland exhibition opens at Bolton Museum - Lancashire

From the Bolton News

VISITORS to Bolton Museum can travel into the unknown world of Gypsyland in a new fascinating, poignant and celebratory exhibition.


To Gypsyland, a touring exhibition by English Romani artist, Delanie Le Bas, is designed to take its audience on a journey to explore the history, culture and traditions of a people.

It also hopes to challenge the perceptions society has of these groups, which are often demonised.

The exhibition also serves as a haunting reminder of how the communities, which today still live on the fringes of society, are connected to Bolton.

For Delanie the thought provoking exhibition, which has been four years in the making, is not the end but the beginning of a conversation about this little talked about community.

She said: “This is a view from the inside out and not from the outside in.”

Pieces in the exhibition — co-curated by artist Barby Asante and commissioned for 198 Contemporary Arts and Learning and supported by the Arts Council and National Lottery — include photographs, archive material from the museums and Delaine’s personal collection.

Featured in the display is a film connecting the exhibition with Bolton Whitmanites, in which they are seen to mark the birthday of poet and journalist Walt Whitman, described as a “friend of the Gypsies”.

There is a disturbing reminder of Bolton’s connection with the slave trade in To Gypsyland.

Many Gypsies were transported to the USA and the Caribbean as slaves and many were slaves within central Europe well into the mid 1850s.

Delanie, aged 48, originally from Worthing, said: “It has been emotional and I am learning all the time, I found out more about the slave trade for this exhibition.

“I would like to say thanks to Bolton Whitmanities and Bolton Museum who have been so helpful.

“We want this exhibition to be accessible to people who come to it from different points, whatever those points are we want it to start a conversation.”

After touring the exhibition will return to London featuring highlights of the all places it has been exhibited.

People can become part of the artistic project by writing their experiences at togypsyland.blogspot.co.uk.

The exhibition is on until June 15.


Traveller Movement briefing shows high levels of Child Poverty in the Gypsy and Traveller communities

From the Traveller Movement

The Traveller Movement child poverty briefing paper sheds new light on how poor outcomes across a wide range of social indicators are indicative of high levels of child poverty within the Gypsy and Traveller communities
. The briefing provides key recommendations on how this issue can be effectively addressed and has been published to coincide with the Government’s consultation on its 2014-2017 child poverty strategy. To date there has been limited focus by the Government on child poverty issues in the Gypsy, Traveller and Roma communities, despite its acknowledgement of the poor social indicators experienced by these groups.

Child Poverty GRT January 2014

Objectors’ warnings proved true as St Cyrus illegal Travellers’ site hit by flooding - Aberdeenshire

From the Courier

The site of an illegal Travellers’ encampment on the Angus-Aberdeenshire border has been hit by major flooding.


Days of heavy rain left the entrance to the controversial North Esk Park submerged under feet of water — as residents warned would happen when the Travellers moved in four months ago.

The St Cyrus site remains the subject of ongoing court action as Aberdeenshire Council attempts to halt the development.

Other parts of the road leading to the St Cyrus Nature Reserve have also been badly flooded by the recent stormy weather.

Extra pitches for Gypsy and Traveller site? - Buckinghamshire

From the Bucks Herald

More Gypsies and Travellers could soon be setting up home in a Vale village.


On Thursday night Aylesbury Vale District Council will consider an application to extend the current site at Willows Park in Horton Road, Slapton.

The plans include extra access for vehicles, the laying of hardstanding and a new fence.

According to the application, the development would increase the capacity of the site to 13 pitches, which would be used by Gypsies and Travellers.

Planning officers have urged the council’s development control committee to approve the proposal.

But councillors will also consider implications for the area, including the impact on residents, highway safety and the impact on the surrounding countryside.

Call for more police responsibility after councillors back Poole Travellers sites in Oakdale and Creekmoor - Dorset

From Blackmore Vale Magazine

AN OAKDALE councillor has called for the police to be given more responsibility for Travellers’ sites after the Borough of Poole supported options for two temporary stopping places.


Councillors voted to back proposals at an extraordinary meeting of the Full Council on Monday evening. The decision means that the council can now submit planning applications for two temporary stopping locations for unauthorised encampments.

Last summer, several unauthorised encampments were set up on land across Poole and east Dorset – with many residents angered by the limited powers of local authorities to evict Travellers.

The two sites identified through a comprehensive selection process are on land next to Safety Drive, Creekmoor (opposite the new Poole Fire Station) and land north of the B&Q car park in Oakdale.

Councillor Ian Potter who represents the Oakdale ward was among 11 councillors who voted against the proposals. 24 members supported the motion, while five councillors abstained from voting.

“Having considered the report in detail, I felt that the financial commitment required for a temporary stopping place in Poole, especially when there is no guarantee it will help resolve some of the issues with unauthorised encampments across the borough, meant that I could not support the proposal” said Cllr Potter.

“I feel we should focus our resources on protecting vulnerable sites in Poole and continue to lobby the Government for a law change which would see each police authority, rather than each local authority, required to provide a transit site.”

If planning permission is granted, the sites could be used for a temporary period between Easter and 1 September. This ensures the sites would be closed for at least six months of the year.

It will cost the council approximately £175,000 to construct the site in Creekmoor and £70,000 for the site along Broadstone Way.

Councillor Mike White, Deputy Leader of the Borough of Poole and Cabinet Portfolio Holder for Planning said: “Poole experiences a number of unauthorised encampments each year which do cause public concern. Therefore, we need to effectively manage the situation and meet the needs of both our local communities and the Travellers.

“We are finding it increasingly difficult to identify a permanent transit site in Poole and so one or two temporary stopping places in the borough should help manage the situation and provide a suitable site when we require the intervention of the police. Such action will enable us to minimise the impact that unauthorised encampments can have on a community.”

Travellers leave York Street car park in Luton - Bedfordshire

From Luton on Sunday

TRAVELLERS have left a car park in Luton after the council started legal proceedings.


The encampment, which arrived in York Street on Wednesday morning, had been served an S61 notice by police.

Luton Borough Council confimed that they have agreed to replace the locks and staff are on their way to clean the site.

Travellers cost taxpayers hundreds of pounds after leaving 'van-loads of rubbish' in Fenton and Stoke - Staffordshire

From the Sentinel

TRAVELLERS left a 'trail of destruction' on two council-owned car parks – with the clean-up bill running into hundreds of pounds.


Families set up camp at Wharf Place, Stoke, after being forced off Fenton Manor Leisure Complex after a fortnight stay.

They have since moved their 20 caravans and vehicles out of the Potteries but toxic waste has been left at both sites.

Stoke-on-Trent City Council has been forced to bring in road sweepers to remove 'several van loads' of household waste and potentially-dangerous gas canisters.

Councillor Janine Bridges, cabinet member for housing, neighbourhoods and community safety, said: "The group left Wharf Place car park of their own will on Tuesday evening.

"The site was tidied yesterday in preparation for staff to start using the car park again from today. I'd like to thank the police for their co-operation in helping to resolve the issue in a swift manner, and both council employees and the public for their understanding while we worked to resolve the issue."

Residents near both car parks have now spoken of their relief after the gypsies left. Dominic Archer, of Stanier Street, Stoke, believes that gypsies should be forced from land the minute they arrive.

The 37-year-old said: "I am relieved they have been moved and hopefully they won't return but they make such a mess, leaving a trail of destruction and then the taxpayers have to pay for it to be cleaned up. It is disgraceful.

"Fortunately it seemed to be cleaned up quite quickly once they had gone."

Chris Burford, of Victoria Road, Fenton, said he now felt confident to leave his car at the sports centre.

The 21-year-old student added: "I am so glad they have been moved on but I am appalled they stayed on the site for such a long time and then had the audacity to stop at another car park so close by.

"They left piles of rubbish all over the place and had no regard for others. I know a lot of people decided not to drive and park at the centre because they were worried about their cars. Some even chose to not go at all. Gypsies have a bad reputation and I think they lived up to that in Fenton. It was very intimidating walking across the car park at night and the ones who used the centre were rude and obnoxious."

The council secured a court order to remove the Travellers from Fenton on Sunday before they moved onto the Wharf Place site, close to the A500. The authority was looking to secure a second order before the families left of their own accord. It is not clear where they have gone.

Angry shouts from public gallery as Stockton Council vote to press ahead with public consultation on potential Gypsy sites - Yoekshire

From the Gazette Live

Angry shouts from the public gallery at Stockton Town Hall greeted a vote to start consulting on a controversial shortlist of potential new Gypsy and Traveller sites in the borough.


Following a heated debate councillors at the monthly meeting of Stockton Council last night voted to press ahead with a public consultation on six identified sites.

But many members voiced their anger and concern over the plans.

As reported the six potential sites are land; to the rear of Roddmere, Yarm Back Lane, Stockton; Frederick Street, Stockton; Between Bowesfield Crescent and the River Tees, Stockton; Mill Lane, Billingham; Eltham Crescent, Thornaby and between the River Tees and Thornaby Road, Thornaby.

The shortlist was drawn up after nearly 11,000 sites were initially identified.

Council chiefs say inclusion in the list does not mean the sites will actually be developed.

But Conservative councillor Terry Laing told last night’s meeting that the issue was “moving too quickly” and called for a detailed review of potential sites with council members.

His calls were backed by Thornaby independent councillor Steve Walmsley who called the shortlist an “absolute farce, the whole lot of it”.

He said that 10,900 sites, “whittled down to six is phenomenal by anyone’s standards”.

He added: “If you have any conscience at all withdraw it and let’s get back out and talk about it again.”

UKIP councillor Mark Chatburn, of Yarm, also supported withdrawing the shortlist saying “it’s utterly preposterous”.

But Labour councillor Eileen Johnson denied there was any Labour plot and said of the six sites identified as possibly suitable sites five have got Labour representatives.

She said the Government insists on all local authorities drawing up this document and said Government guidelines for these sites say “they have to be close to schools, shops and doctors”.

Councillor Mike Smith, Labour, said: “We can all appreciate from the comments we have heard tonight this is quite an emotive issue for members and residents alike.

“This is a consultation to take this out to residents of the borough. We have got to name these sites to go out to consultation.

“That period of consultation is a chance for residents to put forward their views on these sites.”

In a narrow vote of 25 to 20 councillors voted to put the list out to consultation.

The consultation on the shortlist will run from February 3 to March 17 with all comments received forming part of a further assessment of the sites.

A draft Gipsy, Traveller and Travelling Showpeople Site Allocations local development document will then be released for public consultation this summer.

Eyres Monsall residents object to Gypsy church - Leicestershire

From the BBC

Plans to build a Gypsy Church in a former football club-house are expected to be approved by councillors despite more than 1,000 objections.


The place of worship will be at the former Aylestone Park FC site in Eyres Monsall, Leicester.

The leader of the church, Pastor Jackie Boyd, defended the proposals and said it would be a positive move for the community.

Residents said it would lead to parking problems on the streets nearby.
'Caravans and horses'

John Boyce, form Oadby and Wigston Borough Council, said the reason why the football club moved was due to a lack parking space.

He said: "They [worshippers] will come from outside of this area... that means there will be more traffic, more traffic will have a greater impact on residents.
Pastor Jackie Boyd Pastor Jackie Boyd said the Church was for everybody

"It is not about religion it is about usage of this site, I wish the Gypsy community well."

One man, who did not give his name, told BBC Radio Leicester: "You don't know what's going to happen... caravans will be parked at the back, horses, they'll have Gypsy weddings and God knows what."

Pastor Jackie Boyd, from the Life and Light Gypsy Church, said: "I don't know anybody who takes a caravan and horse to church.

"All of our churches are open to everybody... the gospel of Jesus Christ isn't just for Gypsies or non-Gypsies, it's for everyone.

"The reason it's called a Gypsy church is because we know the culture and we know how to reach our people, that's our main aim."

The proposals are expected to be approved by Leicester City Council on Wednesday evening.

A previous application to convert the club house into a medical centre was rejected because it could not be proved it was needed.

see also: The Leicester Mercury - Fury as Gypsy church in Eyres Monsell is approved

The Leicester Mercury - Dorset Avenue Gypsy church plans: Residents gather to protest against proposal

'They've let us down' - residents' anger over Poole council's decision to back transit site plans - Dorset

From the Daily echo

Creekmoor residents reacted with fury following Borough of Poole’s ruling to back plans for two temporary stopping sites for Gypsies and Travellers.


Many of them live in close proximity to where the main 27-pitch Marshes End site will be located, and are worried about possible increases in anti-social behaviour and tensions in the area.

The council voted in favour of a motion to prepare and submit planning applications for the Marshes End site, and a smaller four-pitch temporary stopping site on land off Broadstone Way.

Residents of Creekmoor’s Hazelbury Close said they felt let down by the decision and that their voices had not been heard on the issue.

Carol Snelling, aged 66, who attended Monday evening’s tense Civic Centre meeting, said: “It’s disgusting. I feel that it was all signed and stamped before we knew anything about it.

“If it does go ahead, the land is full of asbestos and they wouldn’t allow anyone to build on it. Also, how long are they going to stay there for?”

Meanwhile, neighbours Jim, aged 77, and 68-year-old Win Harris, who have lived in the area for the past six years, told the Daily Echo of their “disappointment” the site would be going ahead.

Win added: “The council are cutting the bus services, yet they can afford to do this and we weren’t consulted like they said. With the contamination, should they be putting anything on that land, Travellers or not?”

Thirty-year Hazelbury Road resident Syd Tongs echoed sentiments that locals had not been fully consulted on the issue.

The 66-year-old said: “The first we knew about this was last week when Cllr Judy Butt’s meeting held in Creekmoor. It seems that the councillors didn’t have a clue, I think they just voted for it because it is not going to be in their ward.”

Neighbour Christopher Gregory, 60, said it seemed as though some councillors had made up their minds before putting it to residents.

He said: “I got a leaflet through last week to say that there was an ‘urgent meeting tonight’, which I couldn’t attend. In the past, however, my experiences with Travellers have always been bad.”

Wednesday, 29 January 2014

Oakdale and Creekmoor in Poole chosen as Traveller sites - Dorset

From the BBC

Two areas have been chosen for new temporary Gypsy and Traveller sites in Poole.

Councillors voted in favour of the plans for Oakdale and Creekmoor at a borough council emergency meeting.

A full council meeting over the plans was recommended by the cabinet on 14 January because it said "the decision was of such public importance".

Separate planning applications are set to be submitted in the next two weeks and the sites could open by the summer.

The two sites - near the B&Q car park in Oakdale and at Marshes End in Creekmoor - were shortlisted from 90 sites in Poole.

Creekmoor ward councillor Judy Butt said the Creekmoor site was contaminated with asbestos and methane and was on a flood plain which "could very well put the Gypsy and Traveller community in danger".

"It's also on the most dangerous road we have," she added.

The first full council meeting of 2014 in Poole began with the council prayer, and a plea for "brotherly love and fellowship", but there was very little evidence of that among the hundred or so residents who filled every available inch of space in the chamber.

The debate itself was repeatedly interrupted by shouting from the public and several times the mayor of Poole, councillor Phillip Eades, threatened to suspend the meeting and clear the public benches. "Get a bigger room then," came the reply.

After nearly two hours of debate, the proposal for two temporary stopping sites for Travellers was put to the vote, and the officers recommendation was carried by 23 votes to 12 with 2 abstentions.

But some residents, angry that their strong opposition was ignored, have vowed to form a protest group and say they will try and use powers under the Localism Act to force a referendum.

She said access to the site would be "difficult" and added it could also affect access to the nearby fire station.

Poole currently has one residential site at Mannings Heath, but no permanent or temporary transit sites.

Temporary sites are authorised as stopping places for up to 28 days between Easter and 1 September.

Dorset's Police and Crime Commissioner, Martyn Underhill, said a temporary site "enhances the powers" the police can use to deal with unauthorised camping.

Councillor Mike White, deputy leader and cabinet portfolio holder for planning, said: "Poole experiences a number of unauthorised encampments each year which do cause public concern.

"Therefore, we need to effectively manage the situation and meet the needs of both our local communities and the Travellers.

"We are finding it increasingly difficult to identify a permanent transit site in Poole and so one or two temporary stopping places in the borough should help manage the situation and provide a suitable site when we require the intervention of the police."

There have been about 13 unauthorised encampments in Poole since April last year, according to the council.

An independent assessment found that 150 additional Gypsy and Traveller pitches were required in the county from now until 2028, with 18 needed in Poole.

Travellers move on from Wharf Place car park in Stoke - Staffordshire

From the Sentinel

TRAVELLERS have moved on from a car park used by council staff.


Stoke-on-Trent City Council confirmed that the group of around 20 caravans and cars have now left the site in Wharf Place, Stoke, where they settled for two days after being evicted from Fenton Manor Sports Complex car park.

The authority had not yet carried out any action against the gypsies who appear to have left of their own accord.

It is not yet known where the group have resettled.

Now council workers have started a clean-up operation at the site.

Scores of Thornaby residents turn up to meeting to protest against Gypsy site proposals - Yorkshire

From the Gazette Live

Passionate protesters turned up in their scores to a heated residents’ meeting in Thornaby last night.


About 120 residents turned up to the meeting at Eltham Crescent Community Centre to protest against a Gypsy/Travellers’ site proposal in the area.

Les Hodge, chairman of Stainsby Hill Residents’ Association, who chaired the meeting said: “We as a community are against these proposals.

“The area on Eltham Crescent that Stockton Council has proposed the site to be is actually the only bit of green where the kids can play football.

“The fact its location is between an old people’s home and a school is what people are objecting to.”

The land on Eltham Crescent is one of two possible Gypsy sites proposed in Thornaby by Stockton Council - the other is between the River Tees and Thornaby Road.

The town already has two permanent Travellers’ settlements in Teesdale Terrace and Windsor Oval.

Following Government regulations all councils had to come up with proposals for sites for Gypsies and Travellers as “potential locations” and after looking at 11,000 sites across the borough, a shortlist of six sites was drawn up by Stockton Council.

These are the two in Thornaby; land to rear of Roddmere, Yarm Back Lane, Stockton; Frederick Street, Stockton; between Bowesfield Crescent and the River Tees, Stockton and Mill Lane, Billingham.

Council chiefs say inclusion in the list does not mean the sites will actually be developed.

At the meeting last night, Louise Baldock, the Labour Party candidate for the Stockton South parliamentary constituency, said: “I don’t want people to lose sleep that Gypsies will be moving in next door.

“Nothing has been decided yet, there is time for you all to state your objections.”

Mr Hodge added: “This decision has not been made. We are all fighting against it. It’s important we all make sure the council knows our objections.”

Councillor Steve Walmsley, group leader of the Thornaby Independent Association, said that the council had “stigmatised the areas” in Thornaby “simply by naming the sites in the proposals” and urged all councillors and residents to vote against the proposals.

Members of Stockton Council’s Cabinet will consider a proposal to start public consultation on the suitability of the sites when they meet tonight.

It is expected that protesters will turn up to Stockton Town Hall prior to the meeting to speak out against the Gypsy site proposals.

Date set for public inquiry into plans for Moor Lane Gypsy site - Cheshire

From wilmslow.co.uk

A date has been set for the public inquiry into Cheshire East Council's refusal to grant planning permission for the development of a Gypsy site off Moor Lane.


The inquiry will be heard over two days on Wednesday 12th and Thursday 13th March at Macclesfield Town Hall.

The controversial plans to change the use of the open land, which lies within the Green Belt, for the stationing of caravans, a utility/day room and additional hard standing were refused for the second time in January 2013. The Northern Planning Committee refused the application on the grounds that very special circumstances do not exist to justify inappropriate development in the green belt.

Green Planning Solutions, who are acting on behalf of Mr John Allen, submitted an appeal to the Secretary of State, on the grounds that a single pitch will create limited actual harm to the openness of the green belt which is outweighed by the lack of suitable and affordable sites in the area.

According to the appeal documentation "Green Planning Solutions are of the opinion that there is a significant immediate need in the district. This adds considerable weight in favour of the appeal." It also states "If necessary personal circumstances will be advanced including the potential site occupants personal need for a site, health and education."

A document submitted with the planning application (reference 12/4247M), which the Council received over 550 letters of objection to, said that Mr Allen's eldest son suffers from glaucoma. Therefore it was necessary to move closer to Manchester Eye Hospital as they need to attend regular appointments and sometimes require emergency specialist treatment.

Councillor Rachel Bailey, Cabinet member in charge of planning, said: "In Cheshire East, we want to deliver sustainable sites for gypsies, travellers and travelling showpeople that are fit for purpose. It was felt that the site in Moor Lane is not an appropriate development in the greenbelt and is not sustainable.

"We hope that the planning inspectorate will share this view and we await the outcome of the public inquiry."

Members of the public can attend the public inquiry and, at the inspector's discretion, give their views for or against the planning application.

A spokesperson for Cheshire East said "They can get advice from the inspectorate but they usually say they need to attend the inquiry and tell the Inspector they wish to speak. We will write to everyone who commented approximately two weeks before the Inquiry date."

A decision on this planning application, reference 12/4247M, is expected to be made between 5 and 12 weeks after the public inquiry.

Further information can be found on the Cheshire East Council website, by searching for planning reference 12/4247M.

Travellers who set up caravan site in Edgware served eviction notice - London

From Get West London

Travellers are to be booted out of Harrow after setting up in a car park.


Officers from Harrow Council were made aware of two caravans being parked in the car park of Chandos Recreation Ground, in Camrose Avenue, Edgware, over the weekend, after disturbed neighbours demanded that they be removed.

They were handed an eviction notice from Harrow Council on Tuesday, instructing them to leave within 48 hours before they are prosecuted.

Tory leader of Harrow Council Susan Hall said: “This has nothing to do with lifestyle choice or background; it is simply a case of where people have got permission to stay.

“Planning laws apply to everyone and it is not fair on residents that any group is allowed to flout them.”

Council find 'hazardous' rubbish at Fenton Manor Traveller campsite during clean-up operation- Staffordshire

From the Sentinel

COUNCIL workers were forced to clear 'van loads' of rubbish after evicting a group of Travellers from a leisure centre car park.


Stoke-on-Trent City Council staff found hazardous items including gas bottles on Fenton Manor Sports Complex car park after forcing the group out on Sunday.

But now around 20 caravans and cars are camped out at a car park used by Stoke-on-Trent City Council staff off Wharf Place, in Stoke.

The authority declined to disclose how much it cost taxpayers to clear the site but estimate the job comprised one day’s work for a two-man cleansing team.

Travellers in York Street, Luton, given until 11am tomorrow to leave - Bedfordshire

From Luton On Sunday

TRAVELLERS who have moved into a Luton car park have been given until 11am tomorrow (January 30) to leave.


Luton council said the police had served the travellers with an S61 notice following their encampment in York Street.

One resident told Luton on Sunday he believed the group had arrived some time yesterday morning.

The council said it had been alerted to the encampment this morning and had immediately begun legal proceedings.

Travellers told they have 24 hours to leave High Town - Bedfordshire

From Luton Today

Travellers in High Town have been served with an eviction notice that means they have 24 hours to leave.


The group of six or seven caravans arrived in High Town this week and were reported to Luton Borough Council yesterday morning.

A council spokesman said: “We immediately started the legal process for eviction. We’ve also spoken to Bedfordshire Police who have served an as61 notice this morning. It gives the Travellers until 11am tomorrow to depart.”

Travellers have camped in the same area in High Town a number of times before.

Travellers arrival 'worrying’ for neighbours of Chandos Recreation Ground - London

From the Harrow Times

People living near a park where Travellers have set up camp say it is not the first time the site has been used.


Two caravans arrived in the car park of Chandos Recreation Ground, in Camrose Avenue, on Saturday evening.

Harrow Borough Council yesterday issued the Travellers with an eviction notice giving them 48 hours to leave.

David Mensah, whose home in Camrose Avenue backs onto the park, said: “What is worrying is that you just don’t know what they are capable of.

“Something needs to be done to stop the caravans from getting in.

“This is not the first time this has happened. Previously there have loads of caravans and they have made a lot of noise at night. About six years ago people's homes were broken into.

“This time there haven’t been any disturbances and it has been very quiet but when they turn up you don’t know what will happen.”

However the Travellers told The Harrow Times they just want somewhere to stay.

Helen Mingn said: “We have been told to leave but we have nowhere else to go. We get thrown round from place to place and never get the chance to settle.

“People are afraid about what we’ll do but what we really want is somewhere just to settle down, like a caravan site or a house, because moving round from place to place is too stressful.”

Tuesday, 28 January 2014

Travellers set up camp in Chandos Recreation Ground, Edgware - London

From the Harrow Times

Travellers have set up camp in a park and have been handed an eviction notice to leave.


Two caravans arrived in the car park of Chandos Recreation Ground, in Camrose Avenue, Edgware, on Saturday evening.

Alarmed neighbours alerted Harrow Borough Council to the disturbance and today officers issued handed an evection notice to the travellers to leave within 48 hours.

Leader of the council Susan Hall said: “This has nothing to do with lifestyle choice or background; it is simply a case of where people have got permission to stay.

“Planning laws apply to everyone and it is not fair on residents that any group is allowed to flout them.”

Last year around 20 caravans descended on site of the Kodak Sports Ground, in Harrow View, and were moved on by police.

Romani victims remembered on Holocaust Memorial Day

From the Travellers' Times

HOLOCAUST Memorial Day services have been taking place around the world, with many now mentioning the victims of O Porrajmos- Romani for The Devouring- the Romani genocide often referred to as "the forgotten Holocaust".

Yesterday, United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki Moon spoke of the day he visited Auschwitz-Birkenau, where thousands of Romanies were imprisoned following Heinrich Himmler's "Auschwitz Decree" in December, 1942.

"I saw the barracks where Jews, Roma, Sinti, homosexuals, dissidents, prisoners of war and persons with disabilities spent their final days in the most brutal conditions," he said.

On a single night, 2nd August, 1944, 2,897 Romanies were murdered in Auschwitz. The night has become known as "Zigeunernacht", the Night of the Gypsies.

read more...

Call to connect more Travellers' sites to mains sewers backed by councillors - Cambridgeshire

From Cambridge News

More Travellers’ sites should be connected to mains sewers, councillors have said.


Members of South Cambridgeshire District Council voted in favour of a motion calling for gypsy pitches to be treated in the same way as houses when it comes to waste water disposal.

Many Traveller properties are currently treated as if they were holiday caravan sites, including those in Fen Road in Cambridge.

The Welsh government is currently consulting on changes to remedy this and councillors backed the motion from Milton’s Cllr Hazel Smith calling for the reforms to apply in England too.

Cllr Smith said this would help to solve sewerage problems in Fen Road.

She said: “Any caravan occupied as a permanent residence with planning permission should be treated in the same way as bungalows and this review gives us the chance to make that happen.”

Councillors backed the motion by 44 votes to one.

Fowlmere’s Cllr Deborah Roberts said the motion was unfair because many houses in the district are not on mains sewers.

Cllr Roberts said: “If you’re going to have equality, it’s got to be equality for everybody.

“If Travellers at Smithy Fen or Water Lane are entitled to have a good connection, so are all the other people in south Cambridgeshire district who are still on very archaic systems, who, with the situation we have had over the last few years, are finding if difficult to cope.”

Travellers remain at council owned Stoke car park - after being evicted from Fenton Manor - Staffordshire

From the Sentinel

TRAVELLERS evicted from a leisure centre car park remain at another council-owned site, just a mile down the road.


Around 20 caravans and cars moved onto a car park used by Stoke-on-Trent City Council staff off Wharf Place, Stoke, on Sunday evening.

The group have remained at the site throughout today.

The authority is to apply for a court order to force the gypsies off the land close to the A500.

The council refused to reveal the cost of evicting them and cleaning up the site.

Police are also investigating how the families accessed the Stoke car park, which is controlled by a barrier.

Councillor Ruth Rosenau, cabinet member for regeneration, planning and transportation, said: “We were made aware of Travellers on the site on Sunday and are working to resolve the issue. Officers will continue to work with the Travellers to ensure that they move on as swiftly as possible, with the minimum amount of disruption.

“We are working with the police and monitoring CCTV to examine how access was gained to the site – the car park has a barrier which bars people from entering without a pass.

“In the meantime, we ask people to be patient until the situation is resolved.”

A Staffordshire Police spokesman added: “We became aware on Sunday that Travellers were trying to gain access to the car park on Wharf Street in Stoke. We are now working closely with our colleagues from Stoke-on-Trent City Council to deal with the situation and CCTV is being examined to see if any damage has been caused.”

Angry scenes as Travellers' sites get Poole Council backing - Dorset

From the Daily Echo

It was clear, from the loud applause when any councillor spoke against the plans, that the overwhelming number of people gathered were opposed to the idea of the two temporary stopping sites for Gypsies and Travellers.

But after the motion was voted through, Borough of Poole deputy leader Cllr Mike White, said: "Poole experiences a number of unauthorised encampments each year which do cause public concern.

"Therefore, we need to effectively manage the situation and meet the needs of both our local communities and the Travellers."

The proposal was carried with 23 members voting in favour, 12 against and two abstentions. The extraordinary meeting was called after it emerged, last year, that by having a designated temporary stopping site for Gypsies and Travellers, the council could find it quicker and easier to disperse unauthorised encampments from Poole's public places.

This followed a summer of escalating Traveller activity across Poole, which caused heightened tensions locally and left the borough facing a legal and clean-up bill topping thousands of pounds.

Last night, councillors were asked to approve the two sites, at Marshes End, Creekmoor, and land north of the B&Q car park, Broadstone Way, and to authorise a planning application to enable the borough to introduce temporary stopping places by this summer.

There was even an amendment, tabled by councillor John Rampton, calling for the 'status quo' of Gypsy and Traveller provision in Poole to be maintained. This amendment was not fully backed by council.

Cllr Judy Butt, ward member for Creekmoor, said the people she represents were uneasy about three issues - the lack of consultation, the lack of proper consideration about the costs, and that the land at Creekmoor is unfit for habitation.

She added: "The funds could be better used. There are no NIMBYs in Creekmoor, that is what we are being accused of."

Meanwhile, Cllr Xena Dion said: "To say we haven't gone through public consultation is wrong. We are here today because of public opinion."

Council leader Elaine Atkinson said the borough needed somewhere to be used as a stopping site.

"Last summer we had many representations calling for something to be done about it," she added.

And Cllr White said: "Doing nothing is ducking the issue, we need to press ahead."

Poole's cabinet had deferred the contentious decision to full council earlier this month.

The council estimates it will cost £175,000 to construct the site at Marshes End, and up to £70,000 at Broadstone Way.

An additional £35,000 has been set aside to meet the transit camps' projected annual running costs.

Tonight's Civic Centre meeting came after a delegation from Poole travelled to Whitehall to lobby Local Government Minister Brandon Lewis over the transit site issue.

Cllr White said the borough was keen to share a site with its neighbouring authorities, Bournemouth and Dorset County Council. However, it is understood any shared site would require a change in current legislation.

The Creekmoor site will have 27 pitches, while the Broadstone Way site will have an additional four.

Police say if the council provides a transit site, any Travellers moving onto Poole's public open spaces could be evicted within 24-hours or have their cars and caravans impounded if they fail to comply with the eviction notice.

Last October Borough of Poole held an impromptu summit to try to find solutions to the perceived Traveller problem, when it was agreed to explore the transit site optio

Travellers want full-time site home - Lancashire

From the Lancashire Evening Post

Travellers who have settled in a Lancashire village have submitted an application to keep their site on a permanent basis.


Members of the Lee family own the caravan site off Rosemary Lane in Catforth, near Preston, and in January 2011 a planning inspector ruled they could have up to eight caravans on the site for up to three years.

Now an application has been lodged to vary a condition of the appeal decision, to allow use of the land for permanently parking caravans.

A letter from the agent, planning consultant Alison Heine, said: “There would be considerable benefits to the site occupants if consent were made permanent.

“They live on the site without mains electricity and still rely on portaloos.

“They cannot justify the cost of installing connections and non mains drainage until and unless consent is made permanent.

“Such is the desire of the Traveller community to live in the traditional way of life that they will put up with limited facilities on private sites such as this rather than accept housing.”

But Julie Buttle, clerk to Woodplumpton Parish Council, said: “When the inspector considered the application last time, he found it was not an acceptable site to provide the accommodation for which the need has been identified.

She said: “The site itself, regardless of who resides there, is not suitable and not appropriate on highway grounds.”

Mrs Buttle added: “We are disappointed they have put in for a permanent application when, quite clearly, they have known for three years that it’s not sustainable.”

Mrs Heine said: “If this site is not considered suitable, it is also for the local authority to find somewhere suitable.”

A spokesman for Preston City Council said that all planning applications were considered on their merits.

Stoke travellers move on to council-owned car park 'in protest' at Fenton Manor eviction - Staffordshire

From the Sentinel

TRAVELLERS evicted from a leisure centre car park have set up camp on another council-owned site – just a mile down the road.


Around 20 caravans and cars moved onto a car park used by Stoke-on-Trent City Council staff off Wharf Place, Stoke, on Sunday evening.

Now the authority is to apply for a court order to force the gypsies off the land close to the A500 just days after taking action to remove them from Fenton Manor Sports Complex last week.

The council declined to say how much the court action cost taxpayers

Gypsy culture is thriving, despite huge gaps in education, says leading Travellers

From the Western Daily Press

A leading Traveller says the results of analysis of the 2011 Census – which "vastly under-counted" their numbers in the UK – shows that the culture is thriving, despite concerns over the level of education.


Damian Le Bas, editor of the national publication Travellers' Times which is produced in the West Country, described the result that 60 per cent had no formal education or training as "troubling".

But he welcomed the survey for stimulating debate and said it showed the country needed more projects such as that run by a South West company which is imminently launch a digital training programme for Gypsies called Travelling Voices.

The Rural Media Company in Herefordshire has recently received lottery funding of £425,000 to continue running their magazine, the media training project and the website for Travellers for another three years.

Mr Le Bas said the first-ever analysis of census results, which showed 58,000 of those taking part in the 2011 count identified themselves as a Gypsy or Irish Traveller, revealed how badly such initiatives are needed. According to the census half of adults are unemployed and three in five have no qualifications whatsoever.

Mr Le Bas said: "The picture painted by the census is troubling and confirms what many public service providers have been saying for years.

"Gypsies and Travellers have the worst health of any minority in Britain, one of the lowest life expectancies, and are far more likely to be poorly qualified to participate in the world of work.

"This illustrates the serious need for long-term projects like Travelling Voices, which aim to improve access to a wider range of careers and life paths for Gypsy and Traveller people."

Mr Le Bas pointed out that in 2004 the Commission for Racial Equality estimated that there were up to 200,000-300,000 Gypsies and Travellers spread throughout the whole of the UK, with many particularly attracted to the rural areas of the West Country.

He was not surprised so few of those identified themselves in the census, or that only 24 per cent of those Gypsies or Travellers who did actually lived in caravans and had a travelling existence.

"The figures also show the impact of changing times on the nomadic lifestyle," he said.

"Multiple factors – including a decrease in Travellers doing agricultural work, as well as legislation like the 1994 Criminal Justice and Public Order Act, aimed at stopping people from travelling mean that many ethnic Romany Gypsies and Irish Travellers, while retaining other elements of their culture, custom and ancestral languages, now live in housing, just like everybody else.

"The fact that as many as 58,000 people identified as Gypsy or Traveller in the 2011 census surprised some predictors, given a traditional reluctance to self-identify in official forms."

He said the reason for this are varied and complex but included memories of what he described as "the state abduction of Traveller children in Scotland" and an awareness that census-type data was used by the Nazis to persecute Travellers.

The census did not include Roma but he added: "Recent research done by Salford University also estimates that there are at least 200,000 migrant Roma people now in the UK, meaning the combined Romany and Traveller population is fast becoming one of the UK's biggest minorities.

"Yet the UK government still lacks a coherent strategy for Roma integration, which all EU member states are required to have in place."

The Rural Media Company has been working with the Gypsy and Traveller community since the charity was founded more than 21 years ago and has produced the only magazine of its type since 1998.

Its chief executive, Nic Millington, said: "Having access to the internet is an essential component of 21st century life. The benefits that derive from being online – and the disadvantages that come from not being online – are so significant that increasing digital participation has become a critical policy issue."

Mr Le bas adds that, given the lack of Traveller history in the National Curriculum, "it's unsurprising that many still question whether ... an outsider's education can ever really be for them."

'Gypsies' pitch up with 'at least 40 vehicles' at Stevenage site - Hertfordshire

From the Advertiser

“Gypsies” have pitched up at a Stevenage site close to the town centre, bringing “at least 40 vehicles” with them.


An eyewitness at the scene said the group had lit a large bonfire in the car park at the former Fujitsu office in King’s Road, which two fire engines had to extinguish.

Police have confirmed more than 15 caravans have pitched up outside the empty office building in Stevenage, where the caravans are believed to have arrived as long as two weeks ago.

Though they are monitoring activity at the site, police say they are unable to move the caravans on from the car park of the building until its owners ask the occupiers to leave.

While the owners of the site have been informed, they are understood not yet to have requested the group to move.

see also: Comet24 - Travellers occupy land in Stevenage owned by Dragon’s Den star

Monday, 27 January 2014

Traveller and Gypsy site plan - Bedfordshire

From Dunstable Today

The updated draft Gypsy and Traveller local plan is set to go before Central Beds Council at a meeting this Thursday, January 30.


If approved by the full council, the revised Central Beds plan will be published in February.

A fresh round of full public consultation, lasting six weeks, will then be held, to give everyone an opportunity to have their say.

The aim is for the plan, along with any responses from the consultation, to be submitted to the relevant Secretary of State in June.

Committees have been considering points raised during last year’s extensive public consultation.

Various changes have been made to the draft plan and to the list of sites.

But the proposal regarding Green Vale, on the A5 south of Dunstable, is unchanged since last year’s consultation.

Nine pitches are still proposed at Green Vale, where a number of Traveller families already live, and a caravan sales business operates.

The local plan sets out how the accommodation needs of Gypsies, Travellers and travelling Showpeople would be met until 2031. It also details planning policies against which planning applications for sites would be assessed.

Executive councillors have backed a recommendation for 131 Gypsy and Traveller pitches and 20 travelling Showperson plots to be provided in Central Beds up to 2031.

Earlier this month, executive councillor Nigel Young said: “We will have another full public consultation around February to March.”

Consultation feedback will be submitted to the Secretary of State along with the plan.

It is expected that an independent planning inspector will hold an “examination in public” in the autumn.

Supporters can put their arguments in person to the inspector, who will also consider written comments.

> For more information, see the council’s website via www.centralbedfordshire.gov.uk/gypsyTravellerplan

£15k bill for advice on Swansea site plans - Glamorgan

From the South Wales Evening Post

EXTERNAL legal advice about the process for choosing a second Travellers’ site in Swansea cost £15,558.

James Goudie QC gave advice in relation to number of issues in the year preceding a council meeting in which the long-running issue was set to be decided.

At that meeting, in October last year, council officers recommended that the former greyhound track in Fforestfach and land off Peniel Green Road in Llansamlet were selected as sites for the county’s second Travellers’ site — and to seek planning permission for both.

If full council had voted for this recommendation, it would have been a huge step forward after years of whittling down hundreds of potential sites in the county. But before the matter could be determined, the Labour group put forward a motion that cabinet - to whom any decision was being referred - should henceforth consider private as well as public land for the second site.

In the days leading up to the meeting, council leader David Phillips said in an email leaked to the Post that he had “significant and fundamental” concerns over where the new site should be, adding it was vital the right decision was made. These concerns, he subsequently said, were “my personal views arrived at following careful consideration of the report going to council”.

The Labour motion was, on the night, passed unanimously.

But Liberal Democrat councillor Chris Holley said he wanted to know why Labour appeared to develop concerns about the process when a barrister - plus council lawyers - had been consulted for months beforehand.

“Right through the process it has been checked by an expensive barrister,” said Mr Holley.

He added that the authority now faced a situation where, as well as delaying the Travellers’ site decision, it might have to buy private land at a time when money was tight.

The Post asked Mr Holley why he had not resolved the matter when he was council leader. “We wanted to get it sorted as soon as possible,” he said. “We set up a working group - but site visits only took place a week before the (2012) election).”

Mr Phillips declined to comment when contacted by the Post.

Proposed Traveller sites put forward - Buckinghamshire

From the Bucks Free Press

SEVEN sites have been identified for potential future development for Travellers in the Chiltern District.


A draft of the Delivery Development Plan Document was looked at by a Chiltern District Council committee on Tuesday night.

The document said the suitable sites within the built up area of Chiltern District, excluded from the Green Belt, continues to be the main focus for meeting the unmet need for Gypsy and Traveller sites.

The proposal sites mentioned will be held back until they are absolutely needed under very special circumstances.

The proposed sites are The Orchards in West Hyde Lane, Chalfont St Peter for up to six pitches subject to landfill gas monitoring on an extended site; Three Oaks Farm in Roberts Lane, Chalfont St Peter for three pitches within an existing site and land off Rushmere Lane, Near Orchard Leigh for two pitches on a new site.

Other proposed sites are Waggoners Bit in Whielden Lane, Amersham for two pitches, Green Acres Farm in West Hyde Lane in Chalfont St Peter for two pitches and Tobys Stables in Tobys Lane in Little Missenden for one pitch.

A site for travelling showpeople was proposed at Green Acres Farm in Early Howe Road in Holmer Green for three pitches through reconfiguration of the site or site expansion.

Public meeting over Poole Traveller site attracts nearly 200 residents ahead of crucial council decision - Dorset

From the Daily Echo

NEARLY 200 concerned residents turned out for a public meeting over the prospect of a transit site for Travellers in Creekmoor.


The meeting, held at Creekmoor Community Centre on Saturday night, saw standing room only at the facility, as residents met with ward councillors to discuss the potential site.

It was held just two days before an extraordinary meeting at Borough of Poole tonight, where members will be asked to approve the sites and authorise a planning application to enable the borough to have temporary stopping places by the summer.

Cllr Judy Butt, ward councillor for Creekmoor, said the meeting was “very successful.”

“There was no nastiness or anything and what we found touching was that the residents were more concerned about the Travellers being on a site which is not at all suitable for health and safety reasons.

“We will be talking to a group about perhaps waiting a year on this to continue lobbying to get the law changed.

“Our main points always come back to the cost and the safety of the site.”

The public meeting comes after a delegation from Poole went to London to lobby Local Government Minister Brandon Lewis over the issue of transit sites.

Cllr Mike White, deputy leader of Borough of Poole, said: “Poole is keen to share a site with its neighbours, Bournemouth or Dorset, where Travellers who set up camp illegally on public open space or private land, could be moved on by the police.

“But sharing a site instead of each local authority providing its own is likely to need a change in the law,” said Cllr White.

Organised by Poole MP Robert Syms, the meeting was also attended by Annette Brooke, MP for Mid Dorset and North Poole; Cllr Mike Brooke, Lib Dem leader on Borough of Poole and representatives of Dorset Police.

The meeting was one of six initiatives agreed by the council after a summit held last October to try to find solutions following a summer of illegal encampments across the borough.

One of the other points agreed was to consider searching for a temporary stopping place, and from 90 sites considered, two were put forward to cabinet, at Marshes End, Creekmoor for 27 pitches and land north of the B&Q car park in Broadstone Way, for four pitches.

Sunday, 26 January 2014

New Traveller pitches agreed by councillors - Bedfordshire

From Biggleswade Today

New Gypsy and Traveller pitches got the all clear from Central Beds Council’s executive committee.

The meeting followed on from the discussions about the Gypsy and Traveller Local Plan at last week’s sustainable communities overview and scrutiny committee.

On Tuesday (January 21) councillors agreed the scrutiny committee’s recommendations to place 15 pitches on Site 26 off Dunton Lane, Biggleswade and 10 pitches on Site 76 in Fairfield.

The councillors also informally gave their support to increasing the size of the Gypsy and Traveller site in Common Road, Potton from 14 pitches to 27 pitches.

James Gregory, speaking on behalf of Dunton residents, voiced disapproval of the council’s decision to replace Site 55 in Dunton Lane with the nearby Site 26.

He said: “Last week we were told what councillors wanted to do without giving us a reason or justification to switching the sites. Residents feel this has been done behind closed doors.”

As at the previous meeting, he suggested that the council consider placing a site next to Bibby, which is on Stratton Business Park in Biggleswade.

He said it is the preferred spot of Travellers and has better access to facilities.

Councillor Nigel Young, who is leading the plan making process, said that the site could be considered but not as part of the Gypsy and Traveller Local Plan as it is not in the system at this stage.

He added: “The reason we switched the sites was because of the consultation.”

Potton Council Chairman Alan Leggatt spoke about the plan to double the town’s existing site in size. He said: “Last week there was no debate amongst the scrutiny committee members on this issue.

“Anyone familiar with the history of the last 40 years will know of the difficulties and problems the previous authority got themselves when they extended the site in 1990.

“In 1996, following advice from the police, they renovated the site at great cost and they had to halve the number of pitches. The current Travellers at the site are totally against the expansion.”

Councillor Young responded that the previous problems were caused by overcrowding and that this is a problem once more, hence the need to expand the site.

He held up the large site at Eaton Bray as an example of a well run site. Councillor Adam Zerny of Potton queried why the sites that scored highest in the assessment had not been chosen.

Councillor Young responded that they had also looked at the sites and used their common sense to judge suitability.

Speaking after the meeting, Mr Zerny said: “Once again a committee entirely made up of conservatives voted through the plan unanimously. Once again major concerns were raised about a site near Dunton and an extension to the existing Potton site. Once again they were ignored.”

The plan is set to go before full council on Thursday, October 30.

Gypsy family touches Gravesham Council with their plight - Kent

From the News Shopper

A GYPSY family were rewarded for their years of hard work by being given permission to stay permanently.


Ann Vine spoke movingly of how her family had improved the site in Chalk Farm Road and integrated into the community.

Her account at the Gravesham Council regulatory meeting at the Civic Centre in Windmill Street earlier this month particularly impressed the leader of the council, Councillor John Burden.

She told the committee: "We have lived here for five and a half years and have done everything to comply with the council’s demands. It has been very stressful.

"My four children have all been to school nearby and have made many friends there."

Neighbour Barbara Cousins also gave an emotional account in the Vines’ defence.

She said: "They help with school trips and after-school clubs.

"We are proud to call them our friends and love living next door to them.
"Collectively we have celebrated more than 80 birthdays together.

"We would happily support their application for permanent residency."

Councillor John Grey, of Higham Parish Council, who had opposed the application, appeared to change his mind after hearing from Mrs Cousins and Mrs Vine.

He said: "That is going to be a hard act to follow.

"If this council can assure us the green belt land on the site can be protected then that will change our position."

Cllr John Burden said: "I’m very impressed.

"In all the years I’ve been doing this, I’ve never heard of a neighbour of Travellers speak in such a complimentary way."

Gravesham Council granted the application for the permanent residency of two mobile homes, one touring caravan, utility room and stables, subject to some conditions.

Mrs Vine was visibly emotional following the decision and thanked the committee members as she left the council chamber.

see also Kent Online - Gypsy family John and Ann Vine allowed to stay in Chalk Road, Higham

Saturday, 25 January 2014

Bid to build Travellers’ site off Leicester Road - Leicestershire

From the Hinkley Times

A Travellers’ site could be built on land opposite the cricket ground on Leicester Road in Hinckley.


A planning application has been put in to Hinckley and Bosworth Borough Council to build three pitches for mobile homes, three day rooms and eight parking spaces on the site.

The plans, put in by Freddie Price, also feature a stone surfaced turning area, space for three touring vans, and a children’s play area, together with associated landscaping and access road.

The development states that it will be laid out to create minimal visual impact and will be set back 70m from the public highway.

The application relates to a previous application, which included two pitches and the erection of a toilet and laundry room on land adjacent to Hissar House Farm, which was refused by councillors and turned down at appeal.

The only constraint is that the site would be on green wedge land.

But a Hinckley resident, who does not wish to be named, said that the access to the site is not ideal and the road is too busy. They said: “It’s a main road and it’s difficult to get onto.

“I tried to turn on to the road the other day but my vision was blocked because there were cars on the side of the road. It isn’t safe to have even more cars entering and leaving the road.

“Also the access road just isn’t suitable.”

People have until February 3 to comment on the application on the borough council website.

Opposition to plans for Gypsy and Travellers' site in Stockton - County Durham

From the BBC

Plans to find a permanent Gypsy and Traveller site in Stockton, Teesside, have met with strong local opposition.


Six areas of land have been identified, but people living in those areas say the spaces are for the community to enjoy and not for Travellers.

Gypsies and Travellers say these sites are much needed but prompt anger because of outdated myths, stereotypes and prejudices.

Anger at plan for Gypsy home on campsite near Plymouth - Devon

From the Herald

RESIDENTS are outraged at a retrospective planning application for a private Gypsy mobile home on a Wembury camping site.


The applicants, Jim and Doris Manley, run the Pilgrims Rest Camping and Caravanning Club campsite in Wembury Road, near Knighton, but in November last year they made a retrospective planning application to use the land as a “private Gypsy/Traveller caravan site” for one two-bedroomed mobile home, one touring caravan and one amenity block. In their submission they reveal that “building, work or change of use” started in 1998.

South Hams District Council accepted comments on the proposal until January 20 this year and received dozens of replies from residents who live nearby, all opposing the application. However, public documents show that the planning officers wrote in an email in September last year which quoted Mr Kinsella, planning officer with South Hams council: “Having assessed the appellants statement and considered the scheme in accordance with the Local Plan Policies the Local Planning Authority are now of the opinion that planning permission may be forthcoming for a single Gypsy Traveller site.”

However, some residents have claimed that the applicants are using their historical links with Gypsy ancestry to get around planning rules.

One wrote in opposition, stating that the applicants have “lived a settled life in Wembury for many years and have owned and paid council tax for at least two properties on KnightonHill. In no way can they be classed as ‘itinerants’. Theirs is known locally to be a settled lifestyle. Any Gypsy ancestry is incidental and should not enable them to build a ‘semi’ permanent bungalow on a prime bit of land out of the reach of ordinary citizens.”

Another resident, noting the council’s obligation to provide accommodation sides for the use of Gypsies and Travellers, claims that the landowner has “made a very calculated and strategic move in order to obtain the council’s sympathetic approval of his retrospective planning application”.

They add that the site is situated within land designated as an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty since 1960.

They also allude to the site being known as Pilgrims Rest Camping and Caravanning Club and that planning approval for such a camping site is “normally given subject to a restriction that no site is to be occupied continuously for longer than a stipulated number of days” and thus would not allow the building of properties for “permanent habitation”.

The Herald made attempts to contact the applicants but received no response.

The application for a Traveller site comes shortly after another which saw South Hams District Council approve a site on the border of Plympton, in Ridge Road, without informing local councillors.

Fears as Gypsy church plan recommended for approval in Eyres Monsell - Leicestershire

From the Leicester Mercury

Plans to build a Gypsy church look likely to go ahead, despite more than 1,000 objections.

City council planning officers have recommended approval of plans for the former Aylestone Park FC site, in Eyres Monsell. The application goes before the planning committee on Wednesday.

If approved, the 3,700m sq plot, which is being leased by the Travellers, would include a church and the existing car park.

In total, 974 residents have signed petitions opposing the Life and Light Gypsy Church, which would be closest to homes in Dorset Avenue, South Wigston.

A further 177 have signed letters of objection highlighting their concerns about "big, fat Gypsy weddings", similar to those featured in the Channel Four documentaries.

But Jackie Boyd, the church's spokesman and spiritual leader, said his congregation bore no resemblance to people on the Channel 4 show.

"We're nothing like Big Fat Gypsy Wedding," he said. "Unfortunately, we're famous for the wrong reasons – infamous.

"What you see on these TV programmes is the worst of us – and they do exist, but it's car crash TV.

"It's like someone watching Jeremy Kyle and assuming everyone in England is like that.

"It's a wonder it ever got to this stage with the amount of objections, but I'm really glad it has. I can't do or say anything at the minute which will change people's minds about us. I just hope time will allay any fears people have."

Residents have expressed concerns about excess traffic and parking, noise, litter, crime, the effect on house prices and the impact of large events held at the site.

South Wigston ward councillor John Boyce said the strength of feeling against the plans would be evident at the public committee meeting, which will be held at the Town Hall.

He said: "I would expect a fair number of residents to turn up on Wednesday."

Coun Boyce said the objections were not about Travellers moving on to the site.

"The fact of it is, it's an inappropriate development on that site," he said. "It has nothing to do with the applicants. The area just does not need another place of worship – there are a dozen churches nearby already."

Council planning inspectors are in agreement with Coun Boyce about the number of churches in the area.

However, the recommendation document states that bringing the former club house back into use is more important than residents' concerns about the number of churches.

In it, the planning inspector states: "I consider such a location appropriate for a place of worship."

The church would occupy the club house and car park.

The former football pitches have already been earmarked for an extension to Saffron Hill cemetery and would not be included in the site.

Although the nearest homes are in South Wigston, the application site is in Leicester.

The proposal will also go before an Oadby and Wigston Borough planning committee next Thursday. Officers there have also recommended it be approved.

The city council's planning and development control committee will meet at the Town Hall, on Wednesday, January 29, at 5.30pm.

A second meeting will be held at the Oadby and Wigston council offices on Thursday, January 30, at 7pm.

Friday, 24 January 2014

Potton Town Council chair’s letter about Traveller sites - Bedfordshire

From the Biggleswade Chronicle

Within the last week Potton Town Council has attended both the Overview and Scrutiny Committee and Executive Members’ Committee meetings of Central Bedfordshire Council to make representations on the revised Gypsy and Traveller Local Plan.


At the OSC meeting on January 14 in relation to Site 58 (Potton Road, The Heath) it was suggested by Councillor Nigel Young that “The Overview and Scrutiny Committee may wish to remove this site from the plan in order to consider the expansion of the existing Potton site outside of the plan making process.”

In the representation I stated on behalf of Potton Town Council that whilst it is welcomed that Site 58 should be removed from the shortlist, Potton Town Council remain totally opposed to geographical expansion of the existing site.

Anybody who is familiar with the 40 year history of this site will know of the problems that were encountered when the previous authority - Mid Bedfordshire District Council - extended it in 1990 to twice its current size.

The site became unmanageable to the point where MBDC, in 1996, had to completely refurbish it and reduce the boundary and number of pitches to 14 at great expense to the tax payer.

Since those times there has been a more harmonious relationship between the residents at the site and the community in Potton which the town council would not want compromised.

During his response to the representation, Councillor Young stated that as a “windfall” site, 13 additional pitches could be provided, bringing it back to the size it was in 1990.

In subsequent discussions by the Overview and Scrutiny Committee it was disappointing that not one member saw fit to debate the issue presented or challenge the proposal.

How can a scrutiny committee scrutinise anything if it does not probe or challenge the information before it?

As with all the proposals tabled, the committee unanimously agreed to support.

At the meeting of the Executive Committee on Tuesday, January 21 a similar representation was made to members with a plea that they consider and debate the issue.

Again, not one member raised any points on this issue and as with all the proposals, they were nodded through unanimously to go on to a meeting of the full council next week.

What is more frustrating is that because expansion of the existing site would be considered as a “windfall”site it no longer falls within the local plan and cannot be discussed as part of that process. It now will come under normal development and planning processes.

Potton Town Council will continue to fight for the best interests of all its communities.

St Cyrus Traveller site court move hits new delay - Aberdeenshire

From the Courier

Delays to an eviction battle involving Travellers on the Angus and Mearns boundary have been branded as “unacceptable” by a sheriff.


Building work on the unlawful encampment near the beach at St Cyrus will remain in place for at least another fortnight, due to a “lack of answers” over a violated interdict order.

The dispute between Aberdeenshire Council and Traveller James McCallum is no closer to resolution after five months and the court’s patience is wearing thin.

Mr McCallum did not appear in court during a hearing on Thursday, and it emerged defence solicitors had not filed answers — a written statement by the defendant — since the last calling on December 20.

Council solicitor Robin Taylor confirmed that Mr McCallum continues to deny the breach.

“No answers have been lodged,” he told Stonehaven Sheriff Court. “I understand a motion has been lodged to have this hearing discharged.”

Graham Garden, acting as proxy for defence agent Whelan & Co. of Arbroath, said: “I appear as the local agent, as Mr (Nick) Whelan is involved in a jury trial in Peterhead.

“We would seek to promulgate answers within 14 days and have another hearing in four weeks.”

Mr Taylor indicated the council agreed but Sheriff Chris Shead said: “I don’t suppose you’d be surprised to hear that the court finds this (delay) unacceptable.”

“Bearing in mind the nature of what is sought, there is no reason at all for more than seven days to allow for answers to be lodged.”

Mr McCallum faces allegations that he and other occupants of the site breached an interim interdict placed on the land they occupy.

This week The Courier revealed that residents feel the community has been “ripped apart” by the drawn-out legal wrangle, at the same time as the camp’s occupants put up signs proclaiming the site to be known as “North Esk Park.”

Villagers fumed after Mr McCallum and several other members of the travelling community moved on to a patch of land next to Eskview Farm over the weekend of September 21.

Within two days, the patch of grass had been transformed into a partially functioning caravan site and a retrospective planning application for permission to build a 10-stance permanent facility was submitted on September 23.

The council placed a stop notice on the site and later obtained an interim interdict from Stonehaven Sheriff Court to prohibit work continuing.

That interdict was extended and subsequent allegations of a breach of the order were made to the council, a claim denied by all those involved.

The Scottish Environment Protection Agency revealed a new flood map last week which indicates the site borders an area listed as “highly likely” to be subject to flooding.

The camp has the river North Esk to the south and coastline to the east, and nearby residents have previously spoken of their fears poor drainage infrastructure and a disruption to the land could cause flooding.

Traveller Duncan Reid, one of the four owners of the land, said he has been trying to get a site in St Cyrus for 15 years.

He said since the caravans had arrived he hoped to have a “lovely”, well-kept site.

Major exhibition planned to boost historic Gypsy fair - Berwickshire

From the Southern Reporter

Plans are being drawn up for a unique exhibition in the summer, aimed at boosting the historic, but dwindling, St Boswells Fair.


Held annually on July 18, the Saint’s Day of Boisil in the Gregorian calendar, the Gypsy fair stretches back to the early 17th century.

Once attracting Gypsy families from across Britain, the event now struggles to welcome more than a handful.

But plans are underway to host a major exhibition about the fair, in St Boswells Village Hall, during the weeks either side of this year’s event in July.

The word is also going out to traditional Gypsy families across the country to attend the event and save it from slipping into obscurity and the history books.

Not without controversy at times in the past, the current fair is a shadow of its former self.

But now, with the backing of the village community council, Scottish Borders Council and leading Gypsy families, Borders Equality Forum chairman, George Higgs, is co-ordinating efforts to hold the exhibition of photographs, archive film and artefacts connected with the fair.

He is also hoping Gypsy families themselves will bring more of the traditional horse-drawn caravans and their ponies for people to admire.

Mr Higgs told us: “The fair has been going on since at least 1600, but died away a bit in recent times.

“Yet it is a major part of Borders culture and history and it would be a great shame if it died out altogether.

“So, with the backing of the local community council, SBC and ourselves [Borders Equality Forum], a meeting was held last summer with the leading Gypsy families to see what they thought.

“The main families like the Morrisons, Lees and Kennedys were very supportive and, as well as the exhibition, we hope we can attract more Gypsy families to help boost the event.”

The history of the fair is ancient. Prior to 1621, it was held somewhere near the old church of St Boisil.

But after serious flooding of the fair at Maxton Haugh in 1743, it was decided to permanently move it to The Green at St Boswells.

Originally a sheep fair, it steadily grew to include cattle and horses.

And by the early 1900s, there could be as many as 1,000 horses being offered for sale.

While the men concentrated on selling horses and other livestock, the women went door-to-door in the village, selling clothespegs, paper flowers and haberdashery, much of which they made themselves during the winter.

There would also be a range of stalls and sideshows, such as coconut shies, shooting galleries and boxing booths, and not forgetting the traditional Gypsy fortune tellers.

In fact, so popular was the fair among ordinary Borderers that the Ettrick Shepherd, famous poet, James Hogg, turned down an invitation to the coronation of King George IV in 1820, as attending would have meant missing the Fair.

Mr Higgs, who was awarded the MBE last year for services to community relations, plays a major role in liaising with the Gypsy and travelling families who come through the region each year.

He goes out to meet and greet them all, ensuring they are supplied with leaflets and information on sites and public services in an effort to foster better relationships and avoid conflict with local communities.

He continued: “The fair is a major cultural part of our Borders heritage and more needs to be made of that.

“The exhibition will also be a way of helping people learn a bit more about Gypsy culture.

“I would like to hear from anyone who may have old photographs or films of the fair, artefacts connected with Gypsy culture, that we could borrow for the exhibition.”

Anyone with items wishing to contact Mr Higgs can reach him on 07762 403531 or by email at higgs@stboswells.demon.co.uk

Caravan site plans for land between Langleybury Lane and Old House Lane 'is threat to Green Belt' - Hertfordshire

From the Watford Observer

People living near a proposed Gypsy caravan site have described the plans as a "creeping invasion of the Green Belt".


An application was submitted to Three Rivers District Council to develop three Gypsy pitches for the stationing of caravans on a section of land between Langleybury Lane and Old House Lane.

The land is within the Green Belt and already has two temporary pitches, which were granted after an appeal. Locals have raised concerns that implementing another and making the current two permanent would be in contravention of the Green Belt.

Objections have been submitted to Three Rivers District council ahead of their decision.

A resident of Penmans Green, Chipperfield, said: "We do not wish to have any further developments on this site. It is a creeping invasion of the Green Belt."

A resident of Bucks Hill, Kings Langley, added that the site is in contravention of Green Belt and should not be allowed.

Another resident, also of Bucks Hill, said: "The objections at the appeal for the temporary site included the fear that the owners would seek to expand the site. This they are doing in flagrant disregard of planning. The site has now become a mess and a blot on the landscape. We feel that the granting of permanent status would lead to further deterioration of the site."

The district council consulted with landscape officer, Terence Flynn, who said he has no objection to the proposed scheme.

A spokesperson for Chandlers Cross Residents Association said: "The application is for a development which is inappropriate within the Green Belt and does harm to the openness and character of this location.

"Local residents have complained that, since the site has been developed, there has been an increase in traffic along Old House Lane, which causes traffic problems on the single track lane.

"There are no very special circumstances to justify changing the current temporary permission. The application should therefore be refused and the temporary permission retained until it expires and Three Rivers District Council have the opportunity to resolve the site occupancy issue in accordance with the amended local plan."

Thursday, 23 January 2014

Council opposes Traveller site application - Buckinghamshire

From the Bucks Free Press

A PARISH council has opposed a planning application for a Travellers' site, which the applicant wants to make into a prototype with landscaping and play areas.


David Curtis, 48, who currently lives at a Travellers' site at Five Oaks Farm in Studley Green wants to build a gypsy caravan site for nine pitches- five transit and four permanent.

He also wants to build a shower block and stables at the site called High Barns in Marlow Road, Cadmore End.

An extraordinary public meeting was held on Monday night by Lane End Parish Council, where the council decided to oppose the application.

Council chairman, Mike Detsiny, said the council has always opposed development on Green Belt and AONB, which this site is on.

He said: "It is quite clear that although the Government want to find sites for Travellers the protection of the Green Belt overrides the need, the need being the key word, for the travelling community."

He added the road conditions for access to the site are dangerous, the noise pollution too high and the land could also be contaminated.

There were about 100 people at the meeting, including the applicant Mr Curtis, who said they have carried out pre-application reports.

Mr Curtis said the air has been checked, as has the soil, which have come back clear.

He said he has addressed the issue of noise pollution with suggested bunds and trees. He also said he has met with the Highways Agency who have given the all clear in terms of access.

Mr Curtis added: "There is no accommodation for Travellers needs in the area. I am prepared to deal with this site as a prototype. It will be like nothing else seen.

"It won't be like the traditional council run sites which look like concentration camps.

"It is going to be an environment for children with play areas, landscaping and tree planting.

"I am going to live there and run it and uphold the law."

He said the Travellers site where he is staying at the moment is at full capacity.

A Cadmore End resident and member of the CELEB action committee said they will continue to raise awareness to try and prevent the application being approved by WDC.

Members of the public have until January 28 to comment on the application which is on the planning portal on WDC's website.

Consultation on new homes and Traveller sites launched - Surrey

From Get Surrey

A public consultation on where Traveller sites could be built throughout Mole Valley has been launched.

Up to 33 such new sites and plots are called for by 2017 as part of the housing and Traveller site plan which also sets out how Mole Valley District Council could potentially accommodate more than 3,000 new homes.

As part of the plan, it has been estimated there is a need in the borough for an additional 28 pitches for Gypsies and Travellers, and five plots for travelling Show people up to 2017.

Between 2017 and 2027, this is due to go up by a further 16 pitches and two plots.

The sites earmarked for possible housing developments include Dorking, Leatherhead, Fetcham, Brockham and Beare Green, amongst others.

New homes

This includes a suggestion that 200 homes can be built on land at the rear of five to 33 Randalls Road in Leatherhead on 6.1 hectares, and 2.6 hectares of land for 60 new homes in Dorking at the former Chalcraft Nurseries on Reigate Road.

In Leatherhead, 13.2 hectares of land at the Leatherhead Bypass has been described as having potential for 500 homes. For Traveller and Gypsy sites, one suggestion is that existing locations could be extended to address the need.

The district council has said that the majority of existing Traveller sites in Mole Valley consist of around one to four plots, with the exception of Salvation Place in Leatherhead with has 10 pitches.

The plan states there may be scope for an extension to Salvation Place, as well as the site at Conifer Park, Ramore Road, Dorking.

A series of drop-in centres have been announced to coincide with the consultation taking place in Leatherhead, Dorking, Bookham, Fetcham, Beare Green, Brockham, Capel, Charlwood, Hookwood and North Holmwood.

Council staff will be on hand to explain the document, and the consultation is due to end on Friday March 7.

Along with the Housing and Traveller Site Plan, the council is also reviewing the green belt boundaries to see where any changes can be made to accommodate for new housing developments.

Brownfield sites

Councillor John Northcott, portfolio holder for planning, said: “It is important the council has a local plan in place to Show where new homes and Traveller sites may or may not be granted planning permission.

"If we don't, there will be an increasing risk that government inspectors will take decisions on planning applications contrary to the wishes of the council and local communities.

"Saying “no” to new housing is not an option and while we will be making the most of available brownfield sites, it will be necessary to develop some land in the green belt.

“The council’s aim is to ensure those sites which are chosen are the least harmful to the rest of the green belt and the environment.”

Copies of the document can be viewed by visiting the district council’s offices at Pippbrook in Dorking, the Leatherhead HelpShop and all libraries in the borough.

It can also be viewed online . Comments can also be made via the website, at the council offices or by sending an email .

The sessions will be held:

Monday January 27, Leatherhead, Park House, 10am to 3pm.
Tuesday January 28, Capel and Beare Green, Capel Village Hall, 3pm to 8pm.
Thursday January 30, Dorking, Pippbrook, 10am to 3pm.
Saturday February 1, Leatherhead, 25-29 High Street, 10am to 3pm.
Tuesday February 4, Charlwood and Hookwood, Hookwood Memorial Hall, 3pm to 8pm.
Thursday February 6, Brockham, Brockham Village Hall, 3pm to 8pm.
Friday February 7, Leatherhead, North Leatherhead Community Association, 3pm to 8pm.
Saturday February 8, Dorking, St Martin's Walk, 10am to 3pm.
Monday February 10, Fetcham, Fetcham Village Hall, 3pm to 8pm.
Tuesday February 11, Dorking, Dorking United Reformed Church, West Street, 3pm to 8pm.
Wednesday February 12, Bookham, Ye Olde Windsor Castle, Little Bookham, St 3pm to 8pm.
Thursday February 13, Leatherhead, Christ Church, Epsom Road, 3pm to 8pm.
Friday February 14, Capel and Beare Green, Beare Green Village Hall, 3pm to 8pm.
Monday February 17, Charlwood and Hookwood, Charlwood Village Hall, 3pm to 8pm.
Tuesday February 18, Dorking, St John's School Sports Hall, Goodwyns Road, 4pm to 8pm.
Monday February 24, Bookham, South Bookham SPACE, Dorking Road, 3pm to 8pm 3pm to 8pm.